BUG - WinToolkit installer and path

[komitaltrade]

Did I doig something wrong, or WinToolkit installer contain some bug?

 

So, if I try to install image with WinNTSetup2, installer hang as he cant find the path (USB drive is still plugged).

 

I beleive that easy solution will be to add browse dialog (now, installation terminate without installers, after OK button).

[crashfly]

While you might understand what you were meaning, the rest of us have very little to go on with your above post.  Please include more information as to what you did, what you were installing, *when* it was installing, and other such information that we might be able to help deduce your problem.  At this point, I cannot conclude anything from your post and can only suggest that you did something wrong.

[komitaltrade]

"Did I doing something wrong ..." is  just expression (as I don’t want to looks like critics).

If somebody use WinNTSetup2 (better to write, is it somebody who don’t use it???), it simply must to appear same issue, as system of windows installation is different than classic installation.

Win Toolkit obviously count that Apps folder must to be on root of the installation media, silent installer is simply not capable to found folder because installation is continued from HD and not installation media. Silent installer is obviously packed in install.wim in (probably some temp folder of HD) and Apps folder is not copied to HD as it is not part of install image. In other words, Apps folder is not packed in install.wim like silent installer, what makes silent installer to be “lost” on execution).
Silent installer is triggered but after 10 seconds of search (counter is visible) he left the message that any install file is found and simply close itself.

As I personally don’t prefer silent installation during the setup (rather Ketarin after first desktop login, as it can contain all silent installers always fresh and dynamically added or removed and definitely always automatically updated), it is not some huge issue for me, except in the case when silent installer by force add some windows updates (KB) to silent installer by itself (what force me to create once again compilation without KB, as Win Toolkit neither offer option to remove silent installer once integrated in install.wim).

So, maybe is best if somebody will explain how to manually remove silent installer from already compiled image (however, silent installer has lot of issues to be fixed, if I was successful with explanation).

P.S. For me is personally not clear also why Legolash waste his time with silent installer, when Ketarin is free open source perfect solution with almost unlimited options:
- Automatic updates,
- Automatic silent installations with full range of switches for different purposes and scenarios,
- Dynamically creation of (multiple) bundle setup variations (depends what you want),
- Support of absolutely all types of files to be triggered (executed, so not just installation)
-  Can be triggered how many times you want in absolutely any phase of installation (silent installer also if Legolash will publish it like standalone solution), …

All silent installers available from rickendo64 (e.g.) are 100% compatible with full updatability with Ketarin (so, no needs for manual monitoring of updates and inclusion in installation.

 

[Kelsenellenelvian]

You are quite mistaken as I have seen in other posts that the toolkit actually scans for drives that have a designated letter and then looks for the "Apps" that it is programmed to look for.

 

Simply put he won't ad third party stuff because he becomes liable for their software and would have to trickle down what little donations he gets.

 

Seriously? Remove the silent installer? Just rebuild the image...

 

Quote from lego in another thread:

 

The RunOnce installer will literally scan every drive letter plugged in for an 'Apps' folder. USB, DVD, CD, RAMDisk, pre-mapped network drive, heck even a floppy disk! As long as it has a drive letter.

[Legolash2o]

Yeah i'll never add 'third party' stuff as it annoys the hell out of me. Having adverts for links within Win Toolkit is enough.

[komitaltrade]

Yeah i'll never add 'third party' stuff as it annoys the hell out of me. Having adverts for links within Win Toolkit is enough.

Sorry, I didnt mean that (you are 100% right). I just want to wrote that I dont see the reasoon to spend your time on silent installer when the fact is that it (tasks related to silent installer) can be managed better from third part applications.

[komitaltrade]

 

Seriously? Remove the silent installer? Just rebuild the image...

Maybe will be better to read the post before ... answer. I asked how to avoid to rebuild the image (so, unmount and remove what and where???).

[komitaltrade]

Quote from lego in another thread:

"The RunOnce installer will literally scan every drive letter plugged in for an 'Apps' folder. USB, DVD, CD, RAMDisk, pre-mapped network drive, heck even a floppy disk! As long as it has a drive letter."

 

Reply is simple - IT IS NOT CORRECT!

 

More precise, maybe (probably) is correct if Apps folder is on the root of the HD (USB, etc.) partition (but why it should to be?).

 

Explanation - I use the partition and extracted installation folder also for other purposes (e.g. WinBuilder), what disable option to get Apps folder on the root of the partition (except if I will make special partition for that purpose). Any other tool what I use dont force me to use root of the partition for work (WinBuilder, WinNTSetup2, etc.).

 

I wrote that main problem is "when silent installer by force add some windows updates (KB) to silent installer by itself" and question (request) for Legolash was to solve the issue (my view is that issue can be underlined like "problem").

 

Now please reply to me "dont use the application if you try to think different from ...." and send me the bomb ... (but before try to use your bra...).

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Reply is simple - IT IS NOT CORRECT!

 

More precise, maybe (probably) is correct if Apps folder is on the root of the HD (USB, etc.) partition (but why it should to be?)....

 

... Now please reply to me "dont use the application if you try to think different from ...." and send me the bomb ... (but before try to use your bra...)

 

Ummm did you actually READ what is said? The toolkit looks FOR ANYTHING that has a drive letter and a "Apps" folder at its root. Pendrive, CD, DVD, Blueray, Floppy, Harddrive, external drive. ANYTHING THAT HAS A DRIVE LETTER!..... I.E. You use a DVD for your win install and have a usb thumdrive with the "Apps" folder on it the toolkit will find the usb drive and run the apps.

 

Any more talk like what has been quoted here from you and I will simply ban you.

 

You better check your attitude... Seriously take some midol or have your testosterone levels checked sheesh....

 

• lego will not support or assist you too much (None of us will) if you continue mangling your image with other tools (it is simply too difficult to track all of the changes)
•  
• Some kb can ONLY be added via switches and silent installation the only way to get around that is reverse integration. (Also a topic for another place.)
•  
• You came here with a big attitude expecting lego to change things in his app because you have caused issues for yourself using other apps. WTF? Walk along son....

 

P.S. There is a way to remove the runonce entries BUT you have to mount the image an remotely access the registry and all of that. The exact method can be found via the forum search engine.

[bphlpt]

@komitaltrade,

 

"The RunOnce installer will literally scan every drive letter plugged in for an 'Apps' folder. USB, DVD, CD, RAMDisk, pre-mapped network drive, heck even a floppy disk! As long as it has a drive letter."

 

Reply is simple - IT IS NOT CORRECT!

 

More precise, maybe (probably) is correct if Apps folder is on the root of the HD (USB, etc.) partition (but why it should to be?).

 

Explanation - I use the partition and extracted installation folder also for other purposes (e.g. WinBuilder), what disable option to get Apps folder on the root of the partition (except if I will make special partition for that purpose). Any other tool what I use dont force me to use root of the partition for work (WinBuilder, WinNTSetup2, etc.).

 

The Apps folder needs to be in a relatively few, predefined places since even though everything is where you want and expect it while you are building your install with Win Toolkit, once you have built your install source, you can then use that install disc or USB from a potentially wide variety of locations, via either DVD or USB etc.

 

 

Perhaps an appropriate request for Lego is whether a single location for a particular Apps folder can be specified as an option, such as via a checkbox and a input box?  If nothing is specified, or the checkbox wasn't checked, or the location does not exist at time of install, then the current standard behavior of looking for an Apps folder at the root of all installed drives of any kind would still take place.  The current standard behavior would be the default.  I can see how this might be useful.  Would that handle your situation?

 

Cheers and Regards

[Legolash2o]

The reason it has to be an Apps folder on the route because it's a quicker than making it scan every folder on every partition. If you wanted me to make it so you can specify a location. Then all you had to do was ask...

[bphlpt]

@komitaltrade,

 

Seems the ball is back in your court.  If what I proposed will work for you, then please make a post to that effect in the request section.  If it won't, and you can't specify another alternate method that won't effect the standard method or take too long to either implement or execute, then you will probably have to live with the present situation.

 

Cheers and Regards

[komitaltrade]

Legolash2o and bphlpt, thanks for constructive and useful posts. For other brilliant post, I’m forced to reply in another post, as anything from the post(s) belongs to topic.

Legolash2o finally confirmed that silent installer don’t search deeply than root of the partition for Apps folder (personally opinion, that’s completely fine approach of Legolash2o), my conclusion is confirmed and diagnoses of issue is ended.

GOAL of my topic is to keep usability of already developed tool (silent installer) in ALL SITUATIONS (not just for cases where the installation reside on the root of partition/drive and I really cant see that like destructive topic (definitively is not request for new feature, for me is more like BUG or wrong approach to implementation of the silent installer).

Despite that I suggested two solutions, maybe is not bad to explain exact whats going on in my situation, but I rather like to think for universal situations than for specific cases of the usage (what will also remove objections that Legolash2o develop something for specific person – see other post).

So, If I exclude some fanatics, I assume that Win Toolkit is tool for technicians. They regularly came in different situations with the clients and not with the situation of repeated installation on virtual machine or personal PC of the user itself.

One technician usually try to be pragmatic and try to use same external media for different purposes (diagnostics, development of the tools, installation images, etc.) and different OS on the media, with attempt to avoid needs to make replicas (copies), as all the times comes new changes (updates, new tools, new OS distros, etc.).

So, my external media is divided in four partitions (Multiboot with several OS, OS development, Applications – installers and portable, partition with data of the clients, snapshot drivers, etc.).
Multiboot partition contain one minimalistic WinPE (also bigger rescue WinPE for the special cases), Windows 7 VHD and several Linux OS. Minimalistic WinPE is for fast boot to take drivers snapshot of the client PC and data rescue/copy on Data partition, with tools for formatting, but also WinNTSetup2 and Unetbootin for OS installation on client PC.

Windows development partition contain several root folders (WinBuilder for WinPE “production”, Win Toolkit for Windows 7/8 “production”, vLite …, nLite …, several folders for Linux “production”, folders for each original extracted ISOs, folders with “produced” ISOs and “Resource” folder for updates, silent installers, etc.). So, my Apps folder is on the second level of root of the partition and silent installer is not capable to locate it. That not mean how I want to suggest to Legolash2o to extend search on second level just for me (as maybe somebody will get it on third level, …, etc.), as I don’t think that Win Toolkit should to be developed for particular use, rather for universal situations.

Consequently, I can see several options (included mix of options):

- before Win Toolkit dropped all “extra” KB on Silent installer tab and user was warned (warning is still present), what allowed user to decide to keep or remove it from installation (so say, to remove silent installer). Now KB not appear on the tab and user is despite the warning not capable to remove KB and silent installer from install.wim. Bring back the function and problem is solved.
- Keep function to search just first level (root), as it is no needs to guessing possible situations of the numbers of levels (extended searching also slowing down installation process), but predict the popup folder Browse dialog in the case of the failure in the search to let user to manually locate it.
- … maybe some other solution can be the best.

ADVICE (if Legolash2o will allow me to be free to add advice)

It is true that somebody will valuate this like personal taste, but I’m ready to prove much more detailed) huge advantages of the proposed solution instead of the present situation.

You are using RunOnce for silent installer, but I suggest to you to think about the option to offer to user to trigger it in RunOnce and/or at FirstLoad (to use “Active Setup Component” - [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed Components\...]).
Main differences RunOnce and FirstLoad:

- RunOnce is triggered just once and FirstLoad on every first load of every user. Users will be capable to decide during the installation when to install applications, updates, etc. (useful for sysprep approach and some installers).
- RunOnce is triggered before user login and FirstLoad after. FirstLoad will permit fully automatic ending of installation, as dialog appear just after first load. Also, user can get full control over the installation and eventual reboot (sometimes you don’t want to reboot before you ending first load).
- RunOnce usually (not necessary) mean also deletion of installers and FirstLoad enable you to decide regards that (useful for some installers, e.g. MS Office, Adobe products, etc.).
So, my suggestion is to extend the choice to decide how to use silent installer and not to exclude RunOnce.

At the end, as Legolash2o didn’t replied how and where to locate silent installer in the install.wim (to be able to manually delete it after mount), is it mean that any rebuild will automatically delete silent installer?

If it is correct, it should to be another bug as any change (e.g. in registry, new updates, etc.) mean deletion of silent installer and question is – what to do with installers in Apps folder???

They obviously should to be added again to not delete silent installer. Solution is interesting in the case of the huge amount of installers (Office, Adobe, etc) of several giga (many hours of repeated rebuild and if somebody working with several integrated images, can takes much more).

P.S. Please note that I never used it and I really don’t have idea how it works in details (that’s why I asked the question) and just this forced KB integration “pushed” me to start the topic. Before, I simply deleted all what was in silent installer tab and problem was avoided. Now nothing appear in the tab, but installer pop-up without my control over it.

For me, it is not request for feature, it simply must to be the BUG.

[komitaltrade]

Ummm did you actually READ what is said? The toolkit looks FOR ANYTHING that has a drive letter and a "Apps" folder at its root. Pendrive, CD, DVD, Blueray, Floppy, Harddrive, external drive. ANYTHING THAT HAS A DRIVE LETTER!..... I.E. You use a DVD for your win install and have a usb thumdrive with the "Apps" folder on it the toolkit will find the usb drive and run the apps.

 

Any more talk like what has been quoted here from you and I will simply ban you.

 

You better check your attitude... Seriously take some midol or have your testosterone levels checked sheesh....

 

• lego will not support or assist you too much (None of us will) if you continue mangling your image with other tools (it is simply too difficult to track all of the changes)
•  
• Some kb can ONLY be added via switches and silent installation the only way to get around that is reverse integration. (Also a topic for another place.)
•  
• You came here with a big attitude expecting lego to change things in his app because you have caused issues for yourself using other apps. WTF? Walk along son....

 

P.S. There is a way to remove the runonce entries BUT you have to mount the image an remotely access the registry and all of that. The exact method can be found via the forum search engine.

01) "Any more talk like what has been quoted here from you and I will simply ban you."

 

Obviously, force, threatens, cynical humiliated comments (without any facts and logic, as YOU MISSED 100% ALL YOUR "EXPERT" CLAIMS) are only "quality of your personality. However, you obviously keep the rights for yourself to offending other persons (and not just once). In any case, your posts qualified your personality best (nobody should to help you).

02) “Seriously take some midol or have your testosterone levels checked sheesh.... ”

If I overlook the fact that it is more than open offense (what totally disclose your completely seek personality), it is hardly to resist to not to note that these another example of your “universal expertise” obviously came from your personal experience how to try to cure your own frustrations caused by acknowledge that you must to leave long time more with your own misery.

   

03) Your "expert" claims failed second time, as Legolash2o replied without you censorship and permission where and how silent installer search the Apps folder. As I dint noticed that he apologies to you, try to ban him also (make this forum more private for you).

04) "lego will not support or assist you too much (None of us will) if you continue mangling your image with other tools (it is simply too difficult to track all of the changes)".

- My English is not best, but I didn’t noticed that I asked help from anybody, I reported the BUG (for my opinion) and everybody can disagree with that (also you) claim, but without cynical and completely wrong "expert" notes, otherwise, it is offense. Obviously in this yours private forum, it is your privilege (as far as I noted other members are constructive).

- I’m not sure that anybody understand what you mean with "if you continue mangling your image with other tools (it is simply too difficult to track all of the changes)". I guess that nobody produce image for museum, instead for further works, but I don’t exclude also this option. However, I’m not person who need win image for fun, I need it for further works. If Legolash2o will also repeat your claim that images "produced" by Win Toolkit are not for further usage, I will accept it and try to found some other solution, but I’m not sure that you are qualified to publish Legolash2o ideas and intentions (but as you already demonstrate your tolerance for freedom of living and thinking, that’s can be also possible situation).

05) "Some kb can ONLY be added via switches and silent installation the only way to get around that is reverse integration. (Also a topic for another place.)"

A part of another brilliancy expert claim, I’m wondering where you found that I asked anything of reverse integration??? I asked how to manually remove silent installer (but, for you, that’s maybe same), as I already further explained the problem for peoples who know about the issue.

06) "You came here with a big attitude expecting lego to change things in his app because you have caused issues for yourself using other apps. WTF? Walk along son...."

Is it another example of your education, culture and tolerance to keep offending others and not to think about idea to ban yourself?

- What "big attitude" you are talking (try to examine yourself or search for help)?

- I didn’t caused any issue by myself and competent peoples obviously (try to read replies) understand it, but you obviously not.

- "Walk along son...."

A part of fact regards another example of your education, culture and tolerance to keep offending others and not to think about idea to ban yourself, and a part of the fact that I’m probably older than you father (as you shows that your brain works in lower level than 1 years old kid), you definitively needs help, but not in this forum.

Now you can ban whatever and whoever you want, but best start point will be you (generally, not just on the forum).

P.S. I hope so that other members will not be quite and that they will be kind to reply on your repeated demonstration of culture, education, offensives, threatens and "orders" (to not assist), otherwise they will demonstrate that they also likes your methods ("attitude") and you don’t need to ban me, as I will change the "company" by myself.

 

[yogurt]

Yes, as long as the usb stick is in before the desktop is first shown (after the first reboot).
 
The RunOnce installer will literally scan every drive letter plugged in for an 'Apps' folder. USB, DVD, CD, RAMDisk, pre-mapped network drive, heck even a floppy disk! As long as it has a drive letter.

 

Props on this feature. :prop:

[Geej]

Also perhaps "Apps" folder can be named more unique, like 'WTKApps' as it is way too common.

 

Who know someone may just happen to give the same generic name (folder) in another drive... Then what will happen if 2 same name folders are searched by RunOnce installer if located in different drive?

Just a thought of this remote possibility

[bphlpt]

noob questions - Does the search for an "Apps" folder stop at the first one found, or does it find the "Apps" folders on all drives?  How is the order of drives searched determined?  If there is more than one "Apps" folder, and more than one is used, then what is the order that they are processed?  (I can think of circumstances that having multiple "Apps" folders could be quite handy if their processing, or not, could be controlled.)  If there is more than one copy of an app in one or more "Apps" folder, of the same or different version, what happens?  Are they all installed?  ie, what happens if the app has already been installed previously, does the install routine know or care?

 

Cheers and Regards

[RicaNeaga]

Also perhaps "Apps" folder can be named more unique, like 'WTKApps' as it is way too common.

 

Who know someone may just happen to give the same generic name (folder) in another drive... Then what will happen if 2 same name folders are searched by RunOnce installer if located in different drive?

Just a thought of this remote possibility

+1

 

Sorry it's not in the Requests sub-forum, but maybe you'll see it Lego as right now you're into solving requests, and it's probably simple to implement. Or maybe we shouldn't worry, and Win Toolkit only searches the root of the DVD and not in other folders / sub-folders.

[yogurt]

Win Toolkit only searches the root of the DVD and not in other folders / sub-folders.

 

I believe this statement made by Lego pretty much sums of up where Win Toolkit scans for the 'Apps' folder.

 

The RunOnce installer will literally scan every drive letter plugged in for an 'Apps' folder. USB, DVD, CD, RAMDisk, pre-mapped network drive, heck even a floppy disk! As long as it has a drive letter.

Edited February 2, 2013 by dotfusion

[Legolash2o]

It also looks for a X:\\sources\\Apps folder

[RicaNeaga]

Ok, then I also think a not-so-common name to that folder is preferable. I only hope the changes involved won't generate issues and / or waste too much of Lego's time.

 

BTW, please Lego separate this thread and move parts of it as a request thread, for further consideration, as it's clearly not an urgent request.

[bphlpt]

I think the folder name of "Apps" is fine.  But on the off chance a user has another "Apps" folder at the root of one of his discs, what is the worst that will happen?  Will any executable file be executed, or only files of a certain format?  ie What safeguards are in place to not try and "install" a file that wasn't meant to be installed?

 

Cheers and Regards

[yogurt]

@bphlpt

 

Just a thought, but I suspect that when WinToolKitRunOnce.exe initiates the scan for the apps folder. It maybe scanning for a certain string or file that would be unique to that specific apps folder identifying it as belonging to WinToolKit. Just a working theory right now, but I will test it post my results at a latter time.

[Etz]

I think the folder name of "Apps" is fine.  But on the off chance a user has another "Apps" folder at the root of one of his discs, what is the worst that will happen?  Will any executable file be executed, or only files of a certain format?  ie What safeguards are in place to not try and "install" a file that wasn't meant to be installed?

 

Cheers and Regards

 

As long it doesnt contain the very same installers, nothing happens as installer list and their silent install switches are stored in registry...

Edited February 3, 2013 by Etz

[Legolash2o]

I've changed some code so hopefully things will be better. Also, I've added an option within 'All-In-One Integrator' > Options tab to show a browse dialog if no apps folder was found.