Noob - what can't Win Toolkit do?

[MeltManBob]

Hey guys, I'm new here and after a couple of days of bashing my head against the wall I figured I'd join up and post.  

 

To keep this short, what can't Win Toolkit do when compared to other options such as RT 7 Lite, vLite etc.?  I'm not looking for someone to tell me how to do the things I want to do although I won't say no to someone who offers advice, I'm simply trying to figure out if Win Toolkit is the software to invest my time into to achieve my goals.

 

Goals: 1) Integrate Windows updates and drivers

            2) Remove things I don't use, want or need - ideally trimmed as much as possible for me, realistically stability > size and then refine as I go

            3) Integrate my programs such as games, media software, browsers (maybe even have addons for firefox installed too?)

            4) Basic Tweaks - start menu programs folder organizing, what appears in start menu, taskbar pinned programs, sys tray notifications, taskbar thumbnail preview hover time, assign directories to general libraries such as music, pictures, video etc. 

            5) Cosmetic Customization - Themes, custom theme, Rainmeter

 

Post #4 - This guy mentions using RT 7 Lite to remove unwanted stuff first, then RT 7 Booster for removing even more stuff and then using Win Toolkit to integrate updates and drivers.  I have a link but I read here on wincert that it should be done the other way, integrate first and then do removal but I'm curious because the post I linked makes it appear as though RT 7 Lite can remove more things than Win toolkit. I also keep reading about the win.sys folder and people removing it which I'm still not sure if this is something I should do or not.

 

Addition details, rant!

 

I would really like to customize my windows install visually and organizationally.  Since I'm not a pro and I learn the hard way I usually end up trying many things to find something I like but will usually end up with some problems along the way.  Sometimes it is easier and less time to just start over rather than troubleshoot a problem.  Having an install disk/iso with even just 1 and 2 would greatly reduce my effort when reformatting.  

 

About 2 weeks ago my computer started acting up and eventually I couldn't get back into windows even after attempting repairs, recovery, last known good configuration etc. so I reformatted.  This took a good 14 hours to get most of my programs back on and updates installed because of having to download most of it from the internet. When I tried to update my audio drivers with the Realtek HD audio mobo drivers the audio quit working and I had to revert to a last known good configuration.  I also had to do another revert when I tried to install some themes that required some standalone theme downloading software after which I just left things alone and left me using the standard windows audio drivers instead of the Realtek HD.  Then about 4 days ago my audio quit working and I spent the better part of a day trying to fix it with no luck.  At this point I want to save my time troubleshooting for things that I need to work and there is no reset button! If I had an install disk/iso up to goal 4 I would then I wouldn't spend so much time troubleshooting problems like this because getting set up to where I was pretty much before the problem arose wouldn't take very long.

 

As far as RT 7 Lite goes, it seems like a good idea but I've spent more time dealing with it telling me to "please select a valid windows 7 operating system" or to unmount some image than I have actually using it nor have I been able to create an install ISO that worked for even just updates and mobo drivers.  I have two separate windows 7 source files to work from which I create a copy of for RT 7 Lite to use so as to leave the original source files untouched. More often than not if I can even get RT 7 lite to work, once it's done and I find the newly created ISO doesn't install correctly, RT 7 Lite won't use a new copy of the original source file that it just used.  Bottom line is sometimes it works for me enough to get into rt 7 lite but most of the time it doesn't.  The last way it worked for me was to delete all extractions and temp folders used and let RT 7 lite do the extraction from the Source ISO, not sure if this is repeatable for me or not.  

 

My point being is that for the amount of time and effort I've already invested I should have been able to achieve goal 1 and partially 2 if not completely. Reformatting twice inside a month is not the norm for me but considering it has happened, I would like to devote some time to achieving these goals so that the next time I have to reformat it takes less time and I don't have to waste so much of my time off of work dealing with this whenever it decides to happen.

[Geej]

Since you are not a pro (i'm not pro too) and do not want to waste unnecessary time, build a working image w/o removing anything first.
If that works, then slowly tweak along the way. One-by-one (not more than 3 at any time. You will have easier time to debug if ran into problems)

 

Cheers

[MeltManBob]

Thanks for the reply, that's turned out to be the plan after all of this!  First I want to get the updates then work on removing stuff unless there is some reason it should be done the other way around.  

 

I'm still curious though, is Win Toolkit comprehensive enough to do what I want or do I need to incorporate using other programs even if it's down the road?

[crashfly]

Goals: 1) Integrate Windows updates and drivers

2) Remove things I don't use, want or need - ideally trimmed as much as possible for me, realistically stability > size and then refine as I go

3) Integrate my programs such as games, media software, browsers (maybe even have addons for firefox installed too?)

4) Basic Tweaks - start menu programs folder organizing, what appears in start menu, taskbar pinned programs, sys tray notifications, taskbar thumbnail preview hover time, assign directories to general libraries such as music, pictures, video etc.

5) Cosmetic Customization - Themes, custom theme, Rainmeter

1) Yes, easily.

2) Yes*, but does not entirely remove from install wim.

3) Yes, with addons or silent installers.

4) Yes, many customizable in the program, plus you can import your own tweaks.

5) Yes, easily.

 

Yes, WinToolKit can do what you want.  Your biggest limitation with WinToolKit (so far) is going to be item removal.  WinToolKit uses the program "dism" to select items for 'removal'.  Now, that may stop the package from installing, however it does not forcefully remove it from the image.  (Although I do believe that Legolash2o is working toward that direction.)

 

Be cautious with RT7 lite and vlite, as I believe those items *forcefully* remove items from the image (and supposedly remove those items in a hackish way). If you are intent on using those programs to remove items, beware that you could have problems with the install later.

[ianymaty]

You can follow this method of "compstuff" as it is logical organized http://www.wincert.net/forum/topic/10955-my-personal-image-integration-process/

[MeltManBob]

Thanks guys!  This sounds like it works out better for me.  I don't care so much about the ISO/disk size that I will install from, just the installed size on the computer and even that I don't care about too much.  It would be nice to get it down to just what I need but it's not a huge priority.  Having things disabled for the installation but still on my ISO allows me to go back later and re-enable them if I decide I need them.

 

I'm currently integrating the windows updates through Win Toolkit. I really like the "one stop shop" for the updates as opposed to finding someone's list online and having to use another program Windows Updater.  That's what I had done with RT 7 Lite and tried comparing the MSU's from that to the ones in Win Toolkit but they didn't quite match up.  I'm going to give it a go anyway as this program just seems so much more put together.  

 

When I get to #3, can the addon's install games that typically you have to log in and download from the net like Steam? Am I correct in assuming that addon's allow more control over installing software that typically may not have silent install options?  If that's too much of a hand holding question I'm sure I'll get to it later, was just curious.  Thanks again!

[MeltManBob]

Holy crap, not sure why this was so difficult for me but I just spent a few hours trying to get DISM get-packages to work.  I tried mounting the wim file from my extracted iso folder and tried it unmounted with no luck. Eventually what worked was copying the wim file to a new folder, creating a temp folder in that new folder to mount the wim file in and then using the get-package command.  

 

Anyway I used Win Toolkit Update Catalog to get my updates and integrate but when I installed it through VMware Windows Update showed 99 important updates for about 220mb.  After reading a bit more carefully I think the Update Catalog is not what I need for the normal updates.  I checked out the link to compstuff's thread which left a lot to be figured out as far as the updates but if I understand correctly Komm's Win7 Update Checker is what I need to get all my updates and McRips download will give me things like the most current Flash, Silverlight, Java, Adobe Air etc.  I hadn't thought about those but they fall into the same category for me as Windows updates and drivers.

 

At any rate I tried to compare the updates that windows was telling me I needed to the ones I got from the Update Catalog to see if they just weren't installed but they were mostly different which is what led to reading that they aren't the normal updates.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't I use Komm's Update checker against my WIM file instead of just the Update Catalog in Win Toolkit? The Update Catalog would seem to be more convenient if I could get all of the updates there.

[MeltManBob]

Well so far the Update checker couldn't download KB947821 and it won't create the commandlets to remove, copy or update.  I clicked on the link from the download error box and copy pasted the source link into a new tab which took me to Microsoft's site for the MSU which I downloaded and put in with all the rest.  Unfortunately when I clicked the check button in Update checker it still said 1 missing and hitting the download button made it try to re-download 947821. Anyway I'm kind of at a loss for the moment.

 

BTW, these posts are mostly for me to use as a reference but if anyone can shed some light that would be great too.

[compstuff]

I love the KUC but at this point of learning just pick one method and use that... since this is the WinToolKit thread use it as your 1st step  and download McRips files and it will work well. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't I use Komm's Update checker against my WIM file instead of just the Update Catalog in Win Toolkit? The Update Catalog would seem to be more convenient if I could get all of the updates there.