speed up w7toolkit on high spec systems

[Legolash2o]

Kels, i just put it down to cultural differences or whatever the term is, although a please would have been nice, anyways you should of seen the link i sent you for v1.3.0-94RC_Test8

[Kelsenellenelvian]

I understand there is a cultural problem here.

BUT he has been extremely rude and demanding to you this whole thread.

[compstuff]

I'm still not clear despite the answers so I will ask in a different way that may make a little more sense:

What is the actual sequence of processes that take place when using the tool?

If my ISO or extracted installation folder is on drive F and I start the AIO process what happens next? Does it mount to the "MOUNT" folder and then start processing the addons, updates etc by using the TEMP folder as a scratch pad? So are we copying or writing from MOUNT to TEMP and then back to the source??? I am trying to figure out how to optimize a 2 drive system with regard to I/O writes and reads

I hope that asks this question a little more clearly...

I use a WIN7 dual hard drive laptop for all my work but I only have 4GIG mem so I don't use a RAM drive (I just order 2x4GIG RAM upgrade so will start using RAM drive soon). One of my drives is an SSD so should I create both the W7T temp and mount folders on the SSD for best performance?

[compstuff]

Any thoughts on this? I will be doing some testing today and would appreciate any advice before I do... thanks

[adminxp]

Any thoughts on this? I will be doing some testing today and would appreciate any advice before I do... thanks

MOUNT folder is recommended to set to other HDD (the fastest u have) - then u will get the most possible speed up of w7t work.

tested many times by myself.

also the best variant is to install 32GB RAM to your PC and make 2 RAM DISKs (4-7GB of source files) and 20-22GB ramdisk for mount (depends of amount of things to integrate) - you will get maximum perfomance up to 10-20X speed up in time.

Edited January 26, 2012 by adminxp

[Brandon Phelan]

I understand there is a cultural problem here.

BUT he has been extremely rude and demanding to you this whole thread.

I think you mean that Google Translator has been rude and demanding.

[eroder]

I also have 32GB ram and use Softperfect's free ramdisk ( http://www.softperfect.com/products/ramdisk/ ). It is very fast and you can create/delete ramdisk on the fly. 

I have a permanent 2GB ramdisk  for my temp folder and w7t working folder. When I need to use w7t I quickly create a ramdisk of 10-20GB depending on the size of

 the OS in the image. Ramdisk creation takes about 30 seconds. I then use the big ramdisk to mount image and copy all needed updates/drive to the same ramdisk.

 Integration is lightning quick.

[Stimpy]

I'm pretty sure that disk utilisation is not the problem here.  I have an SSD and a very fast computer, and notice that during integration, HDD access from the Toolkit is about 10%.  Making Win7Toolkit use a RAM disk will only help those still using a slow mechanical HDD on an otherwise fast PC.

 

The only part that is disk IO bound, is the image creation part, while making an ISO.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Stimpy

[caphp]

@Stimpy

 

I'm using a Intel i7 @ 4 GHz, 24GB and a small Crucial M4 with 128GB.

When addin 384 Updates from McRip in w7x64sp1 iso with AIO method (WinToolkit 1.4.1.8), it lasts 46m15s.

 

Nearly half a year ago (older WinToolkit Version), I added over 400 Updates, nearly 15 Programms and a couple of drivers, and I used a ramdrive and it takes only 14 minutes !

 

But...

I can not remember my configurations :-(

I don't know, what exacly I had done to reach this result :-(

Since then I try to config the ramdrive in several ways ( 18GB for mounting, 2GB for temp, 1GB for updates / 17GB for mounting, 3GB for temp, 1GB for updates / and so on ), but I never reached my first result when buying the 24GB and using a ramdrive :-(

 

That really makes me angry and sad.

 

So...

I know that a ramdrive can speedup the WinToolkit several times.

 

When I will manage the correct configuration again, I will post a [HowTo] thread in combination with a free ramdisk tool.

[bphlpt]

Looking forward to it caphp!

 

Cheers and Regards

[caphp]

By the way… here are my last two configurations, if someone likes testing too…

 

1.) no ramdrive, only using ssd

 

Win Toolkit Options – Main (my changes)

 

Error Logging OFF

Mount Logging OFF

Registry Logging OFF

 

Win Toolkit Options – Misc (my changes)

 

Win Toolkit Temp Folder (SSD   C:\Windows\TEMP\WinToolkit)

Win Toolkit Mount Folder (SSD   C:\Mount)

‘Update Catalog‘ Download Folder (SSD   C:\WinToolkit141-8\Updates\McRip Windows 7 x64)

 

Using Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 (X17-59885.iso unpacked on SSD   C:\w7iso_unpacked)

Downloading McRip Windows 7 x64 Updates (2013/01), 384 *.msu files

Using Win Toolkit v1.4.1.8 and All-In-One Integrator

 

Noticeable: most of the reading processes are… (rarely writing processes, so I don’t make a note)

C:\Mount\Windows\System32\config\SOFTWARE (more than 10 processes reading, each of them with 1-40 MB/s)

C:\Mount\Windows\System32\config\COMPONENTS (more than 10 processes reading, each of them 1-40 MB/s)

 

Result: 51m31s

 

 

 

2.) ramdrive and ssd

 

Win Toolkit Options – Main (my changes)

 

Error Logging OFF

Mount Logging OFF

Registry Logging OFF

 

Win Toolkit Options – Misc (my changes)

 

Win Toolkit Temp Folder (RAM 1GB   T:\Temp)

Win Toolkit Mount Folder (RAM 20,5GB   M:\Mount)

‘Update Catalog‘ Download Folder (SSD   C:\WinToolkit141-8\Updates\McRip Windows 7 x64)

 

Using Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 (X17-59885.iso unpacked in RAM   M:\w7iso_unpacked)

Downloading McRip Windows 7 x64 Updates (2013/01), 384 *.msu files

Using Win Toolkit v1.4.1.8 and All-In-One Integrator

 

Noticeable: most of the writing processes are… (rarely reading processes, so I don’t make a note)

dism.exe (more than 10 processes of them, each with 5-40 KB/s, writes to SSD   C:\Windows\Logs\DISM\dism.log  and  SSD  C:\$Logfile NTFS-VolumeProtokoll)

dismhost.exe (more than 10 processes of them, each with 5-40 KB/s, writes to SSD   C:\Windows\Logs\DISM\dism.log  and  SSD  C:\$Logfile NTFS-VolumeProtokoll)

 

Result: 45m30s

 

 

 

So I’m more than 30 minutes away from my old former result :/

Edited January 13, 2013 by caphp

[Falo]

I guess the best way to go if you don´t use Ram is to have 3 separate fysical discs (not partitions)

so you don´t read and write at the same time to the same disc.

 

ex: d: for source, e: for mount and f: for temp

 

I also guess that c: where windows is isn´t the best idea either

 

I don´t know but this seems like the best idea if you use fysical discs

 

/Falo

[Stimpy]

Hi Caphp, you are right that an SSD will speed things up, as the random access times are near zero, compared to a mechanical drive, and a RAMDisk is even faster than an SSD.  But I don't think diskIO is the real problem on a high-end system.  I'm pretty sure it's DSIM, and how it's used in this case.

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Ok here's my views HAS NO ONE been paying attention at all in the past 8 months or so?

 

• The toolkit originally used basic scripts and a older DSIM version.
•  
• Over time due to occasional bugs and issues lots of code was changed. Primarily for error checking and smoothness of integration.
•  
• New DSIM files were added in.
•  
• Redundancy methodology was adopted to check file version and error correcting.
•  
• MS changed the rules a half-dozen times.

Whats my point? Sometime progress and reliability become MORE important than base speed.

 

You really have a basic choice here:

 

You can do it right

or

You can do it quick with the chance of having to do it over and over again until the CPU genie says it worked....

 

Small side note:

 

I have spent hours at a computer waiting for tasks that with now standards literally only take seconds.

 

10 years ago remastering a windows 7 style image would have taken DAYS (If you could find powerful enough hardware to do it on in the personal sector.)

20 years ago it would have been nearly impossible to achieve at all.

 

Whats a hour? Really go take a bath, stand in the sun, screw your significant other, slap your kids around then have a smoke to top all of that off and return to your pc with a pepsi...

 

Think about it, you will have had a very full day

 

Fun facts:

 

2002 hard drive info the 137 GB addressing space barrier was broken yeah ONLY @ 140 gig drives were manufactured then.

There were only single core CPUs of 2-3 GHz in speed, Hyper threading was introduced at the end of the year.

 

1993 had hard drives of 1,350 megs that cost $1,799

They had CPUs of 66 MHz

[Stimpy]

Ok here's my views HAS NO ONE been paying attention at all in the past 8 months or so?

 

• The toolkit originally used basic scripts and a older DSIM version.
•  
• Over time due to occasional bugs and issues lots of code was changed. Primarily for error checking and smoothness of integration.
•  
• New DSIM files were added in.
•  
• Redundancy methodology was adopted to check file version and error correcting.
•  
• MS changed the rules a half-dozen times.

Whats my point? Sometime progress and reliability become MORE important than base speed.

 

You really have a basic choice here:

 

You can do it right

or

You can do it quick with the chance of having to do it over and over again until the CPU genie says it worked....

 

Small side note:

 

I have spent hours at a computer waiting for tasks that with now standards literally only take seconds.

 

10 years ago remastering a windows 7 style image would have taken DAYS (If you could find powerful enough hardware to do it on in the personal sector.)

20 years ago it would have been nearly impossible to achieve at all.

 

Whats a hour? Really go take a bath, stand in the sun, screw your significant other, slap your kids around then have a smoke to top all of that off and return to your pc with a pepsi...

 

Think about it, you will have had a very full day

 

Fun facts:

 

2002 hard drive info the 137 GB addressing space barrier was broken yeah ONLY @ 140 gig drives were manufactured then.

There were only single core CPUs of 2-3 GHz in speed, Hyper threading was introduced at the end of the year.

 

1993 had hard drives of 1,350 megs that cost $1,799

They had CPUs of 66 MHz

Spot on!  :prop:

[caphp]

@Stimpy & Kelsenellenelvian

 

I think you're right. I havn't think about, that there are new dism files and several new toolkit versions.

 

@Kelsenellenelvian

OK, speed is not the most important thing, but when I have no problems in a specific toolkit version and all works fine, which method should I choose to go there ... the one with 45 minutes waiting, or the one with 15 minutes ?

[crashfly]

OK, speed is not the most important thing, but when I have no problems in a specific toolkit version and all works fine, which method should I choose to go there ... the one with 45 minutes waiting, or the one with 15 minutes ?

You are comparing "apples" to "oranges" there.  The one with 45 minutes of waiting has more robust code and actually checks for errors/problems.  The one with 15 minutes has few if any checking and therefore could become a problem later.

[someone_else]

What about checking how much ram there is in the machine and if more than 4 GB it gives a popup (that can be disabled from options) suggesting you to move Toolkit's temp to RAMdisk, and maybe with some useful links to a tutorial or whatever?

[Kelsenellenelvian]

@Stimpy & Kelsenellenelvian

 

I think you're right. I havn't think about, that there are new dism files and several new toolkit versions.

 

@Kelsenellenelvian

OK, speed is not the most important thing, but when I have no problems in a specific toolkit version and all works fine, which method should I choose to go there ... the one with 45 minutes waiting, or the one with 15 minutes ?

 

Do you want it done? (Where you might have to do it a couple of more times to get it to install right? Plus might experience a unforeseen issue later.)

 

OR....

 

Do you want to get it done right? 

 

Pride in your work or speed?

[caphp]

Maybe I have to explain, what Wintoolkit meens to me...

It's not so important for me, to generate a w7 image, install it and use it for a couple of years.

If this is my intention, I will maybe download the tool every 2 or 3 years, use it ... and he ( me ) will never be seen in the next years.

 

I love to work with the tool and I love the several ways of modifikation it overs me.

It's my hobby to test nearly every version, build new install.wim's and test the installation under a VM.

So to me, the possible speedup with a ramdrive is a very important thing, because it offers me many new testings and much much fun !

 

By the way ... BIG THX Lego for your work !!!

[crashfly]

While I might agree with that sentiment, I would rather have the image prepared right the *first* time so that I do not have to go back just to prepare it again.  It would save more time in the back end on testing than to just get half way through an install and realize that it will not work period.

[Stimpy]

Maybe the way forward to make everybody happy, would be to add an option for error checking (defaulted to ON).  That way if you just want to do quick tests, then turn advanced error checking off, then when your up for the final build, turn it back on.

[Legolash2o]

I have noticed that even when you set the temp folder to a RAM drive, DISM will still use the main C:\ partition which sucks. I will be adding code which adds the /scratchdir syntax for dism so it will use the same temp as Win Toolkit i.e. your RAM drive.

[ccl0]

i came across this today. ImDisk  not sure if it would be useful for anyone

Edited January 27, 2013 by ccl0

[gwdh]

Worked fine for me